COMPETITIVE BALANCE ISSUE PASSES

[G.W.A.]

Wonder if the private schools will break ties with the OHSAA and form their own association?

That would answer all the problems but they would never do it and lose their edge.

[Westfan]

Wonder if the private schools will break ties with the OHSAA and form their own association?

That would answer all the problems but they would never do it and lose their edge.

Exactly. I have no problem with Private schools. But the rules have always been skewed for the private schools. How "scholarships" are allowed is beyond me. Every kid in a public school counts toward your enrollment whether they are in a fortunate situation (both financially and locality) or not. This can be a kid from a fortunate situation or some drug addicts family 20 miles from school who's kids will never be given opportunities. And I understand private school kids all count towards enrollment but these kids obviously have advantages over most public school kids because their parents either A. Have money or B Are their on "scholarship".

Just go to a playoff football game. Watch a Youngstown Ursline or Mooney. Or an Akron SVSM in basketball and tell me that the system is fair. When you play D3 and under with D1 talent. Something is wrong.

[4thgoal]

Most teams in our area have several kids on the football team that rarely (if ever) see playing time on Friday nights. If you are a Coach at a school that is close to a division break line, you could be put into a tough spot. If 5 of those kids are open enrollment and moved to the district in 8th grade, do you keep them on the roster or cut them? You know that it could impact the division your team will be placed the next year, but they are good kids and have been loyal to the program for several years, but will never make a tackle or carry the ball in a meaningful part of a game all year. Most teams in our area do not cut kids, but there is an understanding that they want to be part of the team and are willing to accept that to be on the team.

This may be more of an issue in sports such as basketball with a multiplier of 5 or soccer with a multiplier of 6.

[Westfan]

In the past the count comes from how many boys grades 9 through 11 are in the school correct? So this multiplier would be in effect for all transfers; even those that don't play sports?

[Paladin]

I always chuckle when I read some of the garbage I read on this site. Lets take the canard of "they'll cut players" at the parochials to stay below a line for the division they want to play in. Do you know how laughable that is ? Most of the small parochials in the state struggle just to get kids out to have enough for a team. Rosecrans had 18 boys on last years team. Marion Catholic closed their doors and had 13 players their last year. Dozens of those exist all over the state. Then you have the biggies -- Iggy, Eds, X, Moe, etc. They are already huge, so it doesn't affect them. Then you have the "tweeners" -- SVSM, Mooney, Ursuline, Bennies, Alter, etc. There, they don't care. They will play anywhere you put them and the priests and parents won't put up with paying big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for tuition that excludes Johnny from the FB team. Not when you own 90-100 uniforms available

The real reality is just starting. Look for the multipliers to get bumped up until they do make a difference.

[4thgoal]

In the past the count comes from how many boys grades 9 through 11 are in the school correct? So this multiplier would be in effect for all transfers; even those that don't play sports?

No, it is based on the roster for each sport. For example, football could be +5, boys basketball +20, and baseball +10. This is added to the base number from the 9-11 counts previously used.

[Westfan]

In the past the count comes from how many boys grades 9 through 11 are in the school correct? So this multiplier would be in effect for all transfers; even those that don't play sports?

No, it is based on the roster for each sport. For example, football could be +5, boys basketball +20, and baseball +10. This is added to the base number from the 9-11 counts previously used.

So they won't know divisions until rosters come out in august?

[4thgoal]

No....you need to read all of the info on OHSAA's website, but here are a couple important points to what you are asking.

Each school will annually submit to the OHSAA its Initial Roster Count through an on-line system in the team sports of football, soccer, volleyball, basketball, baseball and softball. This will include all students participating in that particular sport in grades 9 through 12. Although submitted every year, information from the Initial Roster Count will be utilized the following school year.

There will be a two-week period for submitting the Initial Roster Count. The Initial Roster Count that is submitted shall include all students who are eligible or expected to be eligible during the season. The submission period will begin after Week 1 of the regular season and end after Week 3. Using the 2013-14 school year as examples, the Initial Roster Count submission windows will be: Soccer and Volleyball – Monday, August 19, to Monday, September 2; Football – Monday, September 2, to Monday, September 16; Girls Basketball – Monday, November 25, to Monday, December 9; Boys Basketball – Monday, December 2, to Monday, December 16, and Baseball and Softball – Monday, March 31, to Monday, April 14.

[A-Town Big Dog]

Would schools only have to turn in a varsity roster for adjustments or do all kids 9-12 count no matter what?

[4thgoal]

Would schools only have to turn in a varsity roster for adjustments or do all kids 9-12 count no matter what?

The way it reads, all kids 9-12 count

[courier]

Suit up and play ball...Most area teams get beaten out of the playoffs by public schools...when we consistently make it to the big dance and get knocked out by privates then and only then would I be concerned. Quite frankly, I believe we adults talk too much about our inability to compete. I believe it can create a defeatist attitude amongst young impressionable kids. JMO

[G.W.A.]

Suit up and play ball...Most area teams get beaten out of the playoffs by public schools...when we consistently make it to the big dance and get knocked out by privates then and only then would I be concerned. Quite frankly, I believe we adults talk too much about our inability to compete. I believe it can create a defeatist attitude amongst young impressionable kids. JMO

Racine Southerns baseball team lost in the regionals 6 or 7 straight years to the same Catholic team. Is that a then and only then that you speak of ?

[Paladin]

Posting about baseball on the Football threads ?

Wow !

[Westfan]

A public school from our area with a good program will be fortunate to get to the state level a few times. Of those few times they may only have the talent to win a state championship a couple times. It's a shame to get that far and have to play a team that was allowed to legally recruit and is really talent wise 2, 3, or 4 divisions bigger than their enrollment says they are.

Even in the regional level. How many teams around here have lost to a Bishop Ready or Hartley in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round?

If things were fair then these schools wouldn't be contenders most every year because it isn't possible. A Mooney or Ursuline wouldn't schedule and beat D1 teams unless they know the talent will not drop off.

[The Flying Dutchman]

So it was ok that Southern made the Regionals 7 years in a row but not NC :122249

[chiefs]

I don't see the baseball argument: majority of central district schools for d4 are private anyways. Would you rather see them lose to an inferior public school team?

[fortdawg]

What people want to see is a fair contest. If a school Public or Private "Recruits" players in then people get upset. What the new rule is trying to do is make sure that the players actually know one another or at least have heard of where their team mate is from when they enter High School. I watched Fisher Catholic beat Trimble at Trimble a few years back and the best kid on the field was from McCuneVille (Miller School District)----want to walk the halls of Fisher with me and ask kids if they know where that is? We both know the answer.

[chiefs]

What people want to see is a fair contest. If a school Public or Private "Recruits" players in then people get upset. What the new rule is trying to do is make sure that the players actually know one another or at least have heard of where their team mate is from when they enter High School. I watched Fisher Catholic beat Trimble at Trimble a few years back and the best kid on the field was from McCuneVille (Miller School District)----want to walk the halls of Fisher with me and ask kids if they know where that is? We both know the answer.

I guess one glaring hole in your claim is that there's going to be the occasional family that lives in the Southern Perry LSD that has the ability to send their kid to Fisher, while there certainly has to be more than one open-enrolled Trimble family that lives up Route 13 a couple miles or so in Corning or areas of the like. Considering FC currently doesn't have any families enrolled down that ways, I don't see what's so egregious. Catholic school communities are pretty tight knit and I reckon they probably have better ties than a good deal of these small villages / town schools.

I can't say I'd blame any family that did what the kid from McCuneville's did, if you had the ability and interest wouldn't you want your son or daughter to get a good Catholic (if religion matters to you) education at an academically strong school with a good regional reputation? Wouldn't that be piqued a lot more with good sports?

I think a lot of this problem is unsolvable. It's not going to take one football player to make Miller a great team or a better school. Punishing schools that have good communities doesn't solve the problem.

[fortdawg]

Dear, FC Fan
I see two "Glaring Holes" in your comments, one: do you honestly expect me to believe that every kid who has suited up for FC is Catholic; two, while you are slamming the Miller LSD and community you overlook the fact that Southern Local is a school of Excellence.

I will grant you that the football fortunes of Miller rise and fall, as do most Public schools, but Coach Bartley can't hurry the rise along by recruiting a kid who lives nearly an hour away.

You mentioned the Miller and Trimble communities as not being as close knit, is that code for not as nice, as the Fisher Catholic community. I would argue that point with you.

The only difference I see between the 3 schools is that the kids from Trimble and Miller know who their teammates will be next year and where they live.

I'll be shocked if someone doesn't respond with a little "TomCat Pride."

[chiefs]

Dear, FC Fan
I see two "Glaring Holes" in your comments, one: do you honestly expect me to believe that every kid who has suited up for FC is Catholic; two, while you are slamming the Miller LSD and community you overlook the fact that Southern Local is a school of Excellence.

I will grant you that the football fortunes of Miller rise and fall, as do most Public schools, but Coach Bartley can't hurry the rise along by recruiting a kid who lives nearly an hour away.

You mentioned the Miller and Trimble communities as not being as close knit, is that code for not as nice, as the Fisher Catholic community. I would argue that point with you.

The only difference I see between the 3 schools is that the kids from Trimble and Miller know who their teammates will be next year and where they live.

I'll be shocked if someone doesn't respond with a little "TomCat Pride."

First, I'm not slamming Southern Local. If a really motivated student sought to it, they could take honors courses, get a 4.0+ and dedicate to get a high ACT score and boom, they're in good position for college. Same can be said for FC, and maybe even more. I don't doubt Miller is a decent school, but get real... in 2012 less than half their sophomores passed all five sections of the OGT. I'm not sure if that's indicative of the education or student motivation... I doubt it's the former, it's probably the latter and even then I can see why some parents might not want their kid to go there (if it's not an academically interested / inclined student body then more likely than not there's going to be discipline issues, rowdy classrooms etc).

The coach at Miller works hard, but you can't convince anyone if private schools don't have football that all of the sudden the Falcons experience a meteoric rise in power and are finishing in the top half of the TVC-Hocking year in/year out.

Re: Catholic football players, I don't care, the school isn't exclusive to Catholics. Regarding community, that could go on as infinitum if we wanted. It's not a matter of "nice". Just reading that Howie Caldwell thread about Trimble over on the round ball forum radiates a sense of division among some community members (school boards can get weirdly political and self-motivated). Public school communities and private school communities have some inherent designs... one revolves around where you bought a house while the other revolves around a common interest.